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tv   Politics Nation  MSNBC  October 5, 2012 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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fighting it. i guess they don't like good news. wonder why. could it be they prefer bad news? wonder why? what a time to know where people stand. and that's "hardball" for now. thank you for being with us on this night of good economic news. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. >> thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, governor romney's got a math problem. for months mitt romney has hammered president obama about job growth. elect me, i can turn the economy around. but today the rationale for his entire campaign is crumbling. the new job numbers are out and unemployment has dropped to 7.8%. under 8% for the first time since president obama first came into office. that's progress on jobs and
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that's good for america. but it's absolutely demolishes a favorite romney talking point. >> three years later, unemployment is still above 8%. >> we've gone 41 months with unemployment above 8%. >> we've had 42 straight months with unemployment above 8%. >> still 8% with over 43 straight months. >> today, that talking point disintegrated and president obama has a strong record to campaign on. >> this morning we found out that the unemployment rate has fallen to the lowest level since i took office. but today's news certainly is not an excuse to try to talk down the economy to score a few political points. it's a reminder that this country has come too far to turn back now. >> now, governor romney issued a statement today saying, quote,
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this is not what a real recovery looks like. really? that's what he has to say? well, here's my statement. what is the reason for mitt romney's campaign? the unemployment rate is at its lowest level in nearly four years. that's not a real recovery? when president obama took office, we were bleeding private sector jobs. now we've added them for 30 straight months. that's more than 4 1/2 million jobs. mitt romney is just dancing as fast as he can to deny the truth. well, keep on dancing. denying the truth is just the new normal for this right wing nut gop. the president's birth certificate not real. poll numbers that show the president ahead, not real. and today these geniuses came up with a new fantasy. ready for this?
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they say the president is cooking the books. romney backer and former ge chairman jack welch kicked off the conspiracy tweeting, quote, unbelievable job numbers. these chicago guys will do anything. can't debate so change numbers. and laura igraham says, job numbers from labor secretary hilda solis are total pro obama. congressman allen west challenged the numbers, quote, chicago style politics is at work here. and, of course, rush limbaugh took time to get unreal. >> it's no different than obama declaring the temperature is going to be 75 degrees every day no matter what your thermometer says. >> that's the problem with the right and that's the problem with governor romney. they can't stand the truth. things are getting better.
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joining me now is joan walsh, editor at large for and an msnbc political analyst. and e.j. dionne, columnist for "the washington post" and an msnbc contributor. joan, let me start with you. what's behind these conspiracy theories? >> they just don't want to accept the realities that the president has made things better, reverend al. i think you forgot one. rush, when hurricane ivan was -- rush accused president obama of messing with the weather or the weather service. i'm not sure which. they impute all of this power to him. it's dark power. it's evil power. because they can't deal with the fact that he had a plan, he implemented the plan. he didn't get everything he wanted but things are better. for jack welch to take this
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here, it's a cruel political joke. talk about normal for someone like jack welch to be taking to twitter and then dumping down on it in interviews and everything else. >> e.j., as joan just said, he doubled down. he was just on "hardball" and chris matthews gave him every opportunity to, you know, land on earth and he doubled down. let me show you what he said. >> jack, do you want to take back the charge? >> no, i don't want to take back one word in that tweet. >> so you would assert, as of now, 5:00 this afternoon, these chicago guys will do everything? >> i didn't say that they did. i said that they would do anything. >> okay. so first of all, e.j., you have been one of the esteemed journalists in this country. the unemployment figures has nothing to do with those that run the white house or in any
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way politically are connected with either party. i mean, is that right or wrong? >> no, that's totally right. and that's what's really important about this weird story. we really have obama der rangement syndrome going on on the far right and not just the far right. first of all, in 1984 and '88, good economic numbers really helped the republicans. you have democrats and liberals running around spinning conspiracy theories. for that matter, good economic numbers helped bill clinton in 1996. back then, conservatives and republicans didn't make this kind of stuff up. but what's also insidious here is that the people who collect economic data for our government are really good. they really care about the integrity of their numbers. if there was something wrong here, they would cry to the heavens to say, somebody is manipulating these numbers. >> yeah, but the point is, if somebody was manipulating the numbers, why have high unemployment numbers in the
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first place? the problem, e.j. -- and i want you to weigh in on this, too, joan, they are now reaching to find a rational for why romney is running. if unemployment is now going down, if you have 30 months of private job creation, if you have bin laden dead, why is romney running? that's the problem they are getting if these numbers are out and they are out and they are valid numbers. >> he's losing rationale, and, you know, he began to lie today on the campaign trail because i think he said, what's happening is that people are losing fact, they are leaving the labor market. they are discouraged workers. that is absolutely not true, reverend al. one of the great things about this job report today is that it reflects good growth and the employed people to total population ratio has actually improved. so it's not people being
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discouraged. it's more people going back. it seems like it could be even more people going back to the labor markets. >> e.j., look at the job growth on screen from where we were going down under the bush administration. now as you see the numbers going up consistently every report since the president went in. so, i mean, you can't rationalize why you are running based on that. then when he says, e.j., that people are losing hope and faith, when we look at "the wall street journal" poll, "the wall street journal," this time last year 21% of people polled said the economy could improve. by july, that number was 27%. by august, it had climbed to 36%. last month, 42% that the economy improved. now it's 44%. people that "the wall street journal" owned by rupert murdoch polled are now saying 44% of the
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economy is proving. when it was 21%, less than half that amount last year this time. >> no, and i think the reason why those numbers have gone up, a lot of people attributed it to a good democratic convention and that might have helped the mood but people are experiencing what is happening with the economy. it's better than it was 3 1/2 years ago than when the president took office. they sense what is happening in the jobs market. they sense what is happening to the housing market and there are still problems out there and that's what romney is going to sort of hit on but clearly things are getting better. voters are sensing it and that's why obama had started building these leads on mitt romney, particularly in states like michigan where the unemployment rate is well below the national average. >> but isn't it -- i keep going back there because i think it explains the conspiracy theory that is being denounced.
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is it a problem, joan, that now every time romney gets up to speak, it's harder and harder to come up with a reason he's running? why is he in the race? >> right. mitt can change himself. he cannot change reality. so he is trying to change himself, reverend al. he has disowned his nasty 47% remark. >> right. >> remember, don't care about the very poor. now he cares about the very poor. he's actually blaming barack obama. >> he actually has a pre-existing condition in his health plan even though his campaign says nothing about it. >> so belatedly he's trying to hit president obama about the suffering that still exists except we know that he would make that suffering for the poor, very poor, and the people that have fallen out of the middle class with his policies. >> so, in effect, we're in desperation because we can't hear an explanation? >> i guess you would say that romney spent 42 months appealing to conservatives and now he wants to spend the last months
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appealing to moderates and obviously he's got to change that speech. arguably the economy was in the dumps for a long time and so this is just going to force him in other directions again. >> well, joan walsh and e.j., thanks for your time tonight. both of you have a great weekend. >> and you, too, sir. coming up, as e.j. just said, he takes it all back. mitt romney says he's completely wrong about calling the 47% of this country victims and moochers. is he serious? and this is what it looks like for mr. romney. big bird is crashing the party and president obama continues to call the romney team out. >> now, my opponent, he's doing a lot of little -- a little tap dance at the debate the other
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night, trying to writiiggle out stuff he's been saying for a year. it was like dancing with the stars. >> all that plus, breaking news out of ohio tonight. a win for democracy. stay with us. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. >> before the debate last night, there was a coin toss to see which candidate would speak first. it was an awkward moment when romney asked, what's that shiny little disk you're holding? ♪ [ male announcer ] introducing the all-new completely re-imagined 2013 chevrolet malibu. sleek new styling... sophisticated dual cockpit design, and sport sculpted seats. available chevrolet mylink infotainment system. the all-new 2013 chevrolet malibu.
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are you part of the "politicsnation" community on facebook yet? that's where the conversation is going all day long. today our fans will talk about the jobs numbers.
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juan says, this speaks louder than the debate. katherine says, imagine what the conversation would be if congress passed the president's jobs bill. i'm with kathy on that one. eric says, big bird should be an obama campaign surrogate. we'll have more on that later in the show. but, first, we want to know what you think. head over to facebook and search "politicsnation" and "like" us to keep the conversation that goes long after the show ends. 0. and one wedding, 2 kids, 43 bottles of olay total effects many birthdays later, still looks amazing. thanks to the trusted performance of olay. that make kids happy. and even fewer that make moms happy too. with wholesome noodles and bite sized chicken, nothing brings you together like chicken noodle soup from campbell's.
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when he was asked what he'd actually do to cut spending and reduce the deficit, his big example was to go after public television. for all you moms and kids out there, don't worry, somebody is finally getting tough on big bird. rounding him up. elmo's got to watch out, too. governor romney plans to let wall street run wild again but he's going to bring down the hammer on sesame street. it makes perfect sense. >> that was president obama today blasting mitt romney on big bird. it's amazing. who would have thought that big bird would become the hot topic from the debate? in fact, big bird showed up at a rally today. it said, crack down on wall street, not sesame street. romney gave president obama lot of openings the other night.
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he industried tried to sprint fd right to the middle but ending up tripping autopsy over the truth. >> now, my opponent, he was doing a little tap dance at the debate the other night. trying to wiggle out of stuff that he's been saying for a year. doing like a -- it was like dancing with the stars. >> the president's right. romney tried to dance away from his own record in the debate. he danced around on taxes, he danced around on medicaid. he even danced around on his own health insurance plan. >> the other night he said he'd repeal obama care as soon as he took office and then he backtracked and said, no, wait. at least i'll make sure to cover folks with pre-existing conditions. and then i've explained, well, actually, your plan doesn't do that. and then his campaign had to come out and say, actually,
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that's not true. our plan wouldn't do that. so governor romney was fact checked by his own campaign. that's right. that's right. >> romney got fact checked by his own campaign. it's pretty clear now that romney has backed himself into a corner and president obama tinds to keep him there. joining me now, dana milbank and erin mcpike. thanks for coming on the show. >> reverend. >> thank you. >> dana, did mitt romney leave himself open to some attacks? >> well, just a little bit, ref renld. i think if he continues on this trajectory, by the last debate, he's going to be considerably to the left of you. and he'll have a difficult time but, you know, i suppose he may be all for increasing the minimum wage and getting more folks on welfare by then.
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but, you know, he had a very big night in a theatrical sense wednesday night and that really knocked obama back on his heels. now, you're seeing from obama the answers that one would have thought he would have come up with in realtime but romney did leave himself with a problem because he's contradicted himself in so many ways. he's come back and said, which one is it? the one that you presented last wednesday? so we're back to the original charge against romney, which is the flip-flop label. >> now, erin, you've covered romney for months and you have been through the primaries. what stunned me the other night, good performance, well delivered, but absolutely full of lies to me. i call them lies. i'm not asking you to say that. i'm saying that. when he would stand there and say he is not advocating a plan that will cost $5 trillion, he
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ran away from his own tax plan and the president called to him. let me show you what i'm talking about. >> absolutely not. i'm not looking for a $5 trillion tax cut. >> for 18 months he's been running on this tax plan and now, five weeks before the election, he's saying that his big, bold idea is, never mind. >> now, the strategy behind this, i'm not asking you to get into my analysis of mr. romney but the strategy behind this is what? is romney and his campaign trying now to bait and switch from the hard right language and rhetoric of the primary and not try to appeal to in the voters? >> there certainly may be some of that. let's simplify it. he at one point said, i will not reduce taxes on high-income americans. but he has said before that he
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wants to cut taxes for all americans the basis of his tax plan is that he wants to cut taxes for everyone. that, to me, was the most stunning one liner of the night, actually. >> yeah, i think so. but i also think, dana, it also stunning that you would stand up there and act like americans can't do math. i mean, you can't have a plan and then when the plan equals $5 trillion, you can't say, that's not what i'm saying. i mean, it is absolutely insulting to the american people. if you believe in a plan, if you believe if your plan is workable and doable and better than the president's, say, that argue it, and let the voters vote. but don't turn around and act like we're crazy because we heard what you've been saying for the last 18 months. >> right. obama is now in a position to
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nail jello to the wall. you said that romney was lying on wednesday night. now, that's possible or it's possible he's now telling the truth and the others were lies. you can't have a tax cut of that size and not add to the deficit because there are not enough loopholes to close to get you to that point. >> dana, isn't that the problem? he comes out of this debate having three at trically won a score in terms of the night but now he's got the problem of having to defend an economic plan that is really problematic for him, particularly given his record and particularly given the republican base. going forward, doesn't he have the burden to defend what he did the other night? >> he does. i assume what is going on here is romney said, look, with the hard right thing, we are down in the key states. we're down overall. this isn't working.
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well, let's bring back that etch-a-sketch campaign. will americans believe suddenly this man that's been saying one thing for the last year or two is now believed something entirely different? he's simply walked away from the whole 47% remark as well. are americans going to accept that? are the last numbers of undecideds going to accept that? >> erin, big bird is showing up. he became one of the memorable lines. is that going to be a problem? i remember chicken george running around, the first george bush's rallies. big bird, was that something that the romney people wished he had not opened the door to? >> al, one thing we saw throughout the primaries is that all kinds of costume characters like to show up to these events.
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so certainly we'll be seeing big bird from now until the election. the problem is, when mitt romney specified that public television is something that he wanted to cut, it puts a face on something. he did get specific but what he was worried about all along is that if he got specific, then it gave the president something to target, which the president now effectively has and you've got lots of people saying, what about big bird? in fact, they were just saying, and what about elmo? and what about cookie monsters? so some of these specifics look like they might hurt mitt romney. >> well, he avoided the specifics on very serious things that affect americans. he won't be specific on medicare, he won't be specific on medicaid, he won't fill in the details on his tax plan but he got specific about a bird. erin, give me a break. dana, thanks for your time tonight. have a good weekend. >> you, too. coming up, governor romney says he's completely wrong about the 47% he called victims.
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does anyone really buy this? and breaking news out of ohio. it's a major victory in the fight of your voting rights. [ male announcer ] what if you had thermal night-vision goggles,
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breaking news out of ohio tonight and it's a victory for voting rights. the sixth circuit court of
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appeals has voted that the three days before november 6th must be reinstated. ohio elections got rid of those days for everyone in the state except for military voters, saying they deserved special privileges. but president obama disagreed and his campaign sued for equal voting access for all ohioans. today the appeals court agreed. quote, while there's a compelling reason to provide more opportunity for military voters to cast their ballots, there is no corresponding satisfactory reason to prevent nonmilitary voters from casting their ballots as well. it's a major blow to secretary of state jon usted who has a record of being a partisan republican. he's been trying to limit early voting all here and it's great knew for the 93,000 voters who
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cast their ballots in the days leading up to the election in 2008. this is the latest in a string of voting right victories that we've seen over the last few weeks. it's a win for the president. it's a win for democracy. it's a win for equality and it's a win for voting rights everywhere. the fight is working and we can't stop now. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. approved! [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'.
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[ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. online outfit piccolo headphones buy now broadway show megapixels place to sleep little roadster war and peace deep sea diving ninja app hipster glasses 5% cash back sign up to get 5% everywhere online through december. only from discover. well come back. despite all of the talk this week about the debate and who wins and momentum, governor romney is still the 47 g% guy. he is the guy that was calling half of the country moochers and now 17 days later he's taking it all back. >> it's i said something completely wrong and i absolutely believe that my life has shown that i care about 100%
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and that's been demonstrated throughout my life and this whole campaign is about 100%. when i become president, it will be about helping 100%. >> come blepletely wrong, i car about 100%. that's not what he said the night the tape came out. >> it's not elegantly stated, by the way. i'm speaking in response to a question and i'm sure i could state it more clearly than i did in a setting like that. so i'm sure i will point that out as time goes on. but it's a message which i'm going to carry and continue to carry. >> not elegantly stated, speaking off the cuff. he's standing by the message on the tape and five days later it was this. >> i've got a very effective campaign but not everything i say is elegant. >> is not elegant but again not taking it back. and here he is monday.
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>> i'm a president for 100% of the american people and that's the real person people care about. not 99 versus 1, not 47 versus anyone else. >> so whatever happened to not worrying about the 47%? and now it's this. >> i said something that's just completely wrong. >> is he kidding? this is the ultimate etch-a-sketch moment, a complete flip-flop. but don't take my word for it. a romney surrogate agrees. >> the republican, the conservative surrogate in the primary is always going to run right and come back to the general for the opposite is of the democrat. that's all you're seeing here. it's very typical. we strong conservatives understand that. so this is campaign strategy. >> it's typical campaign strategy. that's what it's all about? we all know the man caught on tape is the real mitt romney.
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he's still mr. 47% and no etch-a-sketch can erase it. joining me now is joy reid, msnbc contributor and managing editor of and krystal ball. thank you both for joining me. krystal, let me start with you. why he is apologizing for this 47% so late? >> because i think it's damaging and they have seen how it's impacting people. they saw this video and say, finally, we see who this guy is. is he the guy that he was in massachusetts? when they saw that, they said, this is the guy and it's exactly who we thought he was and i will also say, when the comments were first unnerved and he did that press conference, if he he had totally walked it back and apologized at that point in
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time, his base would have freaked out because that 47% number, that has been gospel with the republican tea party base. now that they've stared into the abyss and see that he was going to lose and lose badly, they have given him the bandwidth to apologize and rhetorically move to the center even though his policies are as hard right as they have always been. >> joy, when you look at the comments, how it impacted voter nbc poll shows that 42% of the people view him more negatively. 55% had a negative reaction. i mean, this really hurt him and i guess they had to do something. the president was talking about it today in ohio. and he keeps hitting hard on this. >> yeah. and the thing is, we're going to find out, rev, is whether the strategy starting with the first debate is going to be smart or
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whether the obama strategy of defining the first wealthy class and doesn't care about the people who are, quote, unquote, the 47% which he confirmed in his own voice when he didn't think anyone was watching and out of the view of the cameras. so he confirmed sort of the worst theories that have been put forward by the obama campaign. so it was really hurting him, since particularly the obama campaign has been running ads, as have their associated super pacs and hammering him in the swing states. so at this point we're not seeing a move to the center but a sprint to the center. he's trying to quickly lunch lurch to the center. >> look at the obama campaign ads, krystal. >> 47% of the people will vote for the president no matter what, who are dependent on
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government, who believes that the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, food, the housing. >> so, i mean, with 17 days later saying i was 100% wrong, it is too late. >> it confirmed people's suspicions about mitt romney to start with and you'll remember mitt romney grabbed on to this, you didn't build that comment from the president? >> yeah. >> that has actually not had and the poll when they ask people about that comment and an equal and the other thing i would say here is that he was completely wrong and i think the president took a lot of heat for not bringing up 47% in the debate. but if he had done that, he would have given mitt romney a platform in front of 60 million people to do his mea culpa and
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muddy the water since the 47%. since he didn't do that, romney didn't have the opportunity to make that case to the american people. >> you know, it's interesting because i heard that today and i said the night of the debate we may be seeing some form of roper dope. i don't know what was or wasn't. but it's interesting that the president did bring it up and it's an interesting theory that krystal raises that i've heard from others, which is, to not have raised it with 56 million watching didn't give him a platform to clarify. now to come on somebody else's show, much, much smaller audience, he's now got to try to undue the damage that the president may have -- i have no way of knowing, intentionally not wanting to give him that night an interesting theory. >> if you want to give the obama campaign the sort of strategic this is three-dimensional chess,
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mitt romney committed himself to supposedly moderate platform ideas that are the exact opposite of everything he's been saying on tape for 18 months. so he's also sort of handed the obama campaign of easy to make campaign commercials. there's nothing that campaign people like better than campaign commercials that write themselves. all they have to do is take clip after clip after clip of mitt romney saying things during the debate that they can then play corresponding and a completely way before that. so that's the sort of unanticipated and unintended gift of the debate. >> but he's now going to have to defend, krystal, all of this going forward. >> right. >> and he now has a fresh tape debate and he's going to have to defend it so maybe it was, despite the fact that it was the night that the president was on, did not appear to be on the a-game. might have been smart not to deal with that particular issue
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because he didn't give him an easy shot. you have to believe that romney was anticipating that question and had a are ready answer. >> that answer that we saw to hannity, that was the answer that he prepared for the debate and was probably in a way looking forward to giving it, to try to make some ground up on actually how damaging those comments have been. >> joy-ann reid and krystal ball, thank you for your time. >> thanks, rev. >> don't forget to catch krystal on "the cycle" at 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. still ahead, will the roberts court roll back on civil rights? plus, some republicans will believe just about anything as long as it hurts the president. we'll look at the ugly history of these job number conspiracy theories. stay with us. [ male announcer ] this is anna, her long day teaching the perfect swing
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admitted that he e-mailed a joke saying that the president's mother's dog had sex and now he's finally stepping down from his role as chief judge in march of next year but he's not leaving the bench entirely. he keeps his salary, he keeps his staff, and he can still rule on a reduesed reduced workload. this man has no business being on the panel. a panel has been reviewing his conduct since march. a spokesman would tell us only that the investigation is ongoing with no deadline for a decision to be reached in this confidential process. what's the delay? this judge admits he sent the e-mail. he's already showed he has no judgment to speak of.
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justice has been delayed but it won't be denied. we'll stay on this story. [ mother ] you can't leave the table till you finish your vegetables. [ clock ticking ] [ male announcer ] there's a better way... v8 v-fusion. vegetable nutrition they need, fruit taste they love. could've had a v8...
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we're back with an important issue that's not getting enough attention in this presidential campaign. the future of the supreme court. the court began it term this week and could soon rule on some of the most important issues in the country. affirmative action, same-sex marriage and the voting rights act of 1964 all expected to be on the court's agenda. millions of americans will be affected by what these justices decide and mitt romney's already made it clear that if ea he's elected president, and anthony ext anthony scalia. this is another reason why this
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election is so important. joining me now is jeffrey toobin, legal expert and staff writer for the new yorker and author of a new book, the oath, the obama white house and the supreme court. jeffrey, thank you very much for being here tonight. >> good to be with you, rev. >> wednesday i know because i'm going to be down there and there's a lot of action that this court is going to hear and decide that could up in voting rights and same-sex marriage. >> and you can see george w. bush's impact on those issues. in 2003, justice o'connor browr, diversity is a legitimate goal and the case you're going to hear, the fisher case out of the university of texas, is a direct
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challenge to that and a threat to affirmative action in public universities but it could lead essentially to the death of affirmative action and and you covered in this book, and i'm reading it, very good book, that a lot of the behind the scenes back and forth around the affordable health care act when it went before the court and people were stunned, i among them, when john roberts voted and you write in the book and i want to read, this is out of the book, quote, by demanding that roberts kill our entire health care law, the four conservative justices prompted them to look for some kind of middle ground. roberts felt obligated to protect the institutional interests of the court, not just
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his own philosophical agenda. now, doing that, he uncost merrily went against the conservatives, members of the court. >> he certainly did and count me among those who are shocked and predicted wrongly. justice sees himself as the chief justice, as the embodiment of the court and after citizens united, after bush v. gore to do it a third time in a relatively short period of time would have damaged the court and romney found that middle ground under the taxing power of congress and he upheld the law but don't think that john roberts has
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suddenly. >> a mentor of mine said, be when he said that, he did not find it, they had the right to deal with interstate commerce. >> right. >> but that they could deal with tax law, most of the civil rights legislation was built around interstate commerce. >> it sure was. >> that is not a good sign for some of the stuff that you're dealing with now. >> including the voting rights which they are going to be dealing with. >> because if he already said in the affordable care act decision that he does not find that the interstate commerce is allowable, then how does he turn around in the voting rights decision and say it? >> well, he has the voting rights act in his sights, the depth. you saw it in a case out of texas and basically what roberts has said, maybe in 1965 these states covered by the voting
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rights act, maybe it was justified then but the country has changed so much and these states have changed so much that they need to be freed from the restricts of the voting rights act even though this law has made such an enormous difference in the african-american political representation. >> 2009, chief justice roberts gave some indication that when he questioned the constitutionality of the voting rights act, which is what you just said, in court opinion he wrote, things have changed in the south. this is it in a court opinion. blatantly discriminatory evasions of federal decrees are rare. the act imposes current burdens and must be justified by current needs. so when people see us rallying out there, we are actually looking at a chief justice that you thoroughly went through in this book that may, in fact, turn the voetiting rights act
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around. we're looking at historic times. >> and he will serve much longer than george w. bush, barack obama. these justices serve -- they don't serve for four year terms. they serve decade after decade and that's why the issue is so important. >> you gave a fascinating portrait of how similar yet different allies of president obama and john roberts swore him in and had to do the oath again. both of them had ties to chicago. both of them harvard, both of them harvard law review. i mean, it was amazing how they were like flip sides of the same coin. >> it is. they do a fascinating parallels. but the paradox of the difference is that john roberts when it comes to the constitution is the candidate of change. he's the one who wants to change the law on abortion, on civil rights, on the death penalty, on all of these areas whereas obama is much more of a cautious
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conservative when it comes to the course. he's the one saying, let's leave things the way they are. the law is okay the way it is. roberts is part of the generation of conservatives. ronald reagan brought them to washington who said, we have to change the law. >> i've been trying to tell everybody, i'm a conservative. i'm trying to conserve the voting rights act, conserve affirmative action. i'm the conservative. so glad jeffrey toobin came on the show to affirm that for me. >> that's my goal, rev. >> jeffrey toobin. the book is, the oath, the obama white house and the supreme court. you need to read it and get ready for this year. thanks for being here tonight, jeff. we'll be right back.
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i want to close tonight about the positive jobs report. these conspiracies think that the labor department is cooking the books to help the president. this kind of thing is not new on the right. they didn't believe in global
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